Mulugeta Wodajo

Alright. We're back today. It's, January 10, 2010. This is episode 3. And, today, we're continuing, I guess, thoughts about, and, and, what, in secondary education, you think, up until maybe college and stop before we get to college?

That's right. It's about right. Sounds good. And and also and also we should you know, in case somebody's listening to this later chronologically, there may be a pause our weekly, conversations because dad is going to Ethiopia, this week. Right?

So Yeah. And when are you coming back? Do you know do do you have your ticket back? It's tentatively on the 3rd February. Wow.

You can be gone all month. Almost. 3 weeks. You might have to find a Skype connection back home. I don't know.

I think you can. Yeah. Alright. Well, okay. Well, well, let's go ahead and and get started.

I think when we when, we were talking last time, you said, you know, you were talking about how Typhoon Quinones School changed before, and after 1945 when, when it reopened. And he said we'll pick that up later. So, please go ahead. Okay. Yeah.

At the last in the last session, I indicated that, and I were admitted to Tafari McConnell School, towards the end of 43 42 or early 43. That means really less than 2 years after the empress returned from exile because he he returned in 1941, May 5th. So you, one has to remember that this was still in the middle of World War 2. Mhmm. I mean, the worst, as you know, was from 39 to 45, and we're not talking about 40 to 43.

So right? Yeah. Yeah. In the middle of the war. Yeah.

So parts of the country of part of the Ethiopia was still occupied by the British who who had helped get rid of the Italians, but they stayed on. And the Ogden area was was British. Under the pretext that they needed that part of the Ethiopia as part of the war effort. Mhmm. Ethiopia is now part of the Western Alliance.

So so all good, it was there. The country was just starting. The treasury was empty. The emperor had to actually get a loan of a few £1,000,000 from the British to get the government started. There was a because of the British had helped, drive out the Italians, they had an unlimited access to the government.

In fact, I mean, they had a very the the there were strong political British political pressure on on on on the government. Wow. At one stage when the shortly up What's what's that? Nothing. Go ahead.

It's the dog. Shortly after the emperor returned in a way, he he named his first cabinet in 1941. And the without consulting the British, and the British took it that, expressed great displeasure that he should have consulted with them Wow. Before they appointed his, his cabinet. And the British advisers were through in in verse verse on every part of the government.

They were in the they were high court was fully stopped by the British, the army, foreign of office, education. So it was British in in virtually every every aspect of the government. In fact, now people speak of it that Ethiopia was almost, British to protect us. Protectorate. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, at the time, they had no thoughts about giving their colonies up. Right? I mean, you know, this is Exactly. You know, before that, it was completely natural that they should go from one colony to another.

Yeah. I mean, reading the now, it it was very clear that there was a difference in the outlook of the foreign office and the and and the war office. The the the military. Mhmm. The military wanted, as you said, to keep Ethiopia on the side of the British.

And they were not very keen to give up, their, authority over the emperor. Yeah. You know, while the the foreign office was a little bit more, understanding. Yeah. Interesting.

And in fact, the British influence would not have wind, would not have they would not have been, all that free if he had if you if you told him for the intervention of, president Roosevelt. The emperor, met secretly. He he Roosevelt sent a a plane to Ethiopia, and the the emperor flew secretly from Addis to the, Eastern Mediterranean to meet with the, with the with the Roswell towards returning from the Yalta conference. Wow. I didn't know that.

Yeah. And they met on a on a on a ship, on a warship. And, that was when the, Americans started to help the, diminish the British influence. So the emperor was able to get, some help from the Americans, so the British will not be all that, influential. Anyway, that's, just just a Was it was there much of a British influence before the war?

No. If anything, the British the French were more more influential. French was spoken by the elites in Italy in the country. Not so much English. It was a post a post war phenomenon in Ethiopia on the whole.

Oh, yeah. And short lived? Yeah. Short lived. Yeah.

Yeah. I know that. So how does this affect the school? Well, the schools, are the like, if you took the Farrah McConnell School, I mean, the when I we, Kiefer and I, entered the school in 1942, 43, the director was a British, mister Postgate. Yes.

When he was replaced, he was replaced by a British guy, another British from the British Council, a a gentleman called Steven Wright. Mhmm. So the the British were all over. Okay. On account of all these uncertainties, you can you can understand why it's a very important news at the beginning, you know, when we first entered, not not properly organized.

I mean, it was not properly managed. I mean, its kids age varied from 7 to 20. As I said, the grades went from grade 1 to 36. Last 1. 36.

Exactly. And the teachers were all kinds of people whoever was available, Greeks, Armenians, Egyptians, and Ethiopian priests from the church. Wow. And and very few Ethiopian educated because a good many of the educated Ethiopians had been, annihilated in the course of the The war. Actually.

Yeah. But all this changed gradually. But in 1945, it was really more a more abrupt change. And this is when the French when the emperor invited the French Canadian Jesuits. Mhmm.

Jesuits, Catholics to administer the Tafarikokunen School. Now this was a very unusual choice, and many people speculate to know how come the the emperor chose the the Canadian Jesuits, the Catholics. I mean, when you take into account that in 16/24, the Catholics, Catholic, not only a Catholic, but the Genworth group had managed to, get to convert the emperor, Emperor Susunios, into Catholicism. Yeah. And, and civil war arose as a result of that.

There was a civil war in the country. And, it was a peace came only when the emperor abdicated or or when he was deposed. I don't know whether he was deposed or abdicated, but anyway Yeah. When he was repressed by his son, Fasilides. Yeah.

Facilides, the the one who has all those The castles. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That was that, Susunios who was who was Catholic, who who was convert was the father of Vasilius.

I don't know that. Yeah. So in view of all of the murky history of the Jesuits, how come the emperor, selected the Jesuits? Now it's it's very hard to pinpoint the exact reason, but there are all kinds of speculations. I can mention some of them.

One is that the emperor was himself educated by the Catholic, missionaries in in in in Harar when he was a young Yeah. By by the Monsignor Joruso. He was a capuchin bishop of Harar. And his immediate teacher was another catholic an Ethiopian catholic abba samuel so maybe the Catholic influence was there, from the beginning. Also, what choice did he have?

I mean, how many other large organizations are willing to go to Africa and and work, you know, selflessly to educate. Exactly. Especially at that time because, you know, still the they were recovering from the war. The war has just ended in 1940 5. Yes.

Yeah. And even the emperor wouldn't have entrusted the the wouldn't have welcomed the British or the French. So very few left, as you said. You know? Mhmm.

The Italians were, of course, an end starter. Yeah. Yeah. They have just been thrown out of the country. Yeah.

So, anyway and and also the, Canadians were a little bit, I mean, you know, had the advantage of not having been a colonial power. Mhmm. And they were also bilingual. So all of this must have helped her. And it all also said that when the emperor was traveling to, was on his way to England as as an exile Yeah.

In 1936, he had gone through the holy land, and it was it is said that he visited the school in the holy land in in in what is now Israel. There was no Israel at that time, of course. He must have he visited a a Jesuit school and was very impressed by how well it was organized, how well, it was, you know, the because there was discipline, and the students were, you know, well educated. So he was very impressed by the by the way they just responded at school. And that probably also is another factor why he invited the justice.

But in in any event, for all of these reasons and many others that we don't know, the justice were invited. And first, when they first came, they thought, the invitation was for them to establish a school from the scratch. Mhmm. But but the emperor had already figured out how he wanted to use them. He wanted them to administer an existing school, Tafari Mokono School, the school that that he himself founded in 1924 when he was a regent.

But they but he had to be very careful about the church, the Ethiopian Ethiopian Orthodox Church. So they they had to sign to the 1st group of Catholics, the judges that arrived. They had to sign a statement saying that they will not teach religion. Mhmm. That they will not they will not get involved in any cultural, courses like civics or or or or languages.

Also, they were told not to wear clerical, gowns. They are they were just wore just civilian clothing, attire. Also, they were not called father. They were all just mister. That's right.

Because that this reminds me, you know, in Saint Joseph was a Jesuit school, and I don't think I knew that till after I left. Phil, I don't think there were Jesuits there. There was a it was a Catholic order, another Catholic order, but not Jesuits. I don't know if maybe it's not in parallel then. I mean but so so these people accepted all these restrictions?

Yes. In exchange for what? I mean, you know, if they're, you know, if they're missionaries, they didn't get to be missionaries. Well, hope they were hoping perhaps they're not, gradually, they will be given more, leeway in terms of teaching the religion or, you know, the the justice order is a highly militaristic order. The head of the order is called a general.

Wow. So so, you know, anyway, for whatever the motives they had, but it had to go all the way to the pope, and the pope, had to accept the invitation of the emperor. Now this is all now recorded, but in a small booklet by the former Joseph's father that were at the school. The Farimakuren School. Uh-huh.

Yeah. So they came and reorganized the school from top to bottom. I mean, first of all, it became a fully primary school from grade 1 to grade grade 6. Mhmm. They managed to get good teachers.

Some from, Eastern Europe who had just been, whose whose country had been taken over by the communist. Also displaced people who who had no country to go to. So the emperor had given refugee to some of them, Poles and Czechs and Romanians, and what have you. Some of those came to teach at the school. And, the the the the the first the first director of the school, father Matt, Lucia Matt, became very close to the emperor.

He had an easy access to the to the emperor. Mhmm. But he was virtually the emperor's, education adviser, the fact educational adviser. So he had a free hand to organize the school and do whatever he felt was there, I think, at the time. So how how were their results?

I mean, were were were, the emperor was pleased? Yes. He was pleased. He he he used to come regularly to the school to visit to to visit, And, he he the emperor spoke good French, as you know. So I have very clear memories of the emperor and, and father Matt talking, in the in French.

We didn't know what they were talking about because I don't know French. But, yeah, they went along very well. In fact, it was expected that the father Matt would also be given the responsibility to organize the university college when it's started in 1950. But, and, you know, and and it did happen after getting organized and setting it up properly. Father Matt or mister Matt was, invited to start the college.

Wow. The university college. So some of the Jesuits from Tafarik Mokonnen went to the college, and others were invited came from Canada. And they were also responsible for getting the university college, my alma mater, off the ground in 1950. That's amazing how few people had such a huge impact.

I mean, so Right. Right. Just one person organized a secondary and the thing in college. Actually, The first 3 Jesuits who came were of, as I said, first, Lucille Matt, the director. Leo Ziffel, he was the assistant principal.

And Guillaume Bela. Guillaume means William in French. Guillaume Bela. He was a kind of a dean of students, this in charge of discipline. So so to see.

Matt was virtually I mean, you know, in retrospect, he was kind of the foreign minister of the school. I mean, he was in charge of contacts with the with the minister of educations, contact with the palace, contact with the other schools and and and the government agencies. So, he concentrated on the ex and and contact with European and Western, sources of money and and materials and school supplies and that kind of thing. So is this a like a college president, basically? Yeah.

Yeah. Yep. You're sort of the ambassador and the fundraiser and Exactly. Exactly. Wow.

It's Leo Ziffel was the was the school master. He was a strict disciplinarian, but also very, fair. I mean, if you did your work well and if you kept yourself out of trouble, he doesn't bother you, but he knew when to intervene. And, he was I mean, you there is a one of your questions, this tentatively, outline that you gave me is, my favorite teacher. He's one of those I remember most vividly and for whom I have have very, very great respect is Leo Ziffel.

The the the headmaster was also a teacher? Liam, as if he didn't teach really. He was in charge of, the school. He was he was the principal, so to say, you know, while, Matt was, as I said, foreign affairs city, he was the roommate. He was in charge of the curriculum.

He was in charge of the teachers. He was in charge of the students. He was in charge of the dormitories. He was in charge of the because this this was a boarding school of of of the the, of the cafeteria. Everything having to do with the school, You're the chief operating officer.

Okay. Yeah. But so these guys so were the teachers Jesuits or the teachers were people they hired? Yeah. Only few Jesuits.

I mean, there maybe in total, there would be 6, 7, at most 10. Wow. So they hire they hire the others. As I said, these, displaced persons from Eastern Europe as well as lay, teachers from wherever they can find them. But the but the authority responsibility and the administration was in their firm grip.

And because, Lucian Mauth was close to the emperor, I mean, you know, nobody would imagine of doing anything that they didn't agree with. Yeah. That'd be so sad. It's amazing. So these guy I mean, I don't think I appreciated these people as much.

I mean, they're a small, potent it looks like the bullshit. Like, they're with the with the control you know, they they wag the whole dog. Oh, Ziffer was, I mean, the disciplinarian. I mean, he was he inculcated in our minds the value of self discipline, the value of punctuality, and the value of, of work ethics, self discipline, I think I mentioned. And I mean, like, when we go to the dining room, we had to line up at outside in the same order as we would be sitting in in the cafeteria.

So and he had, how do you call it? A chart of who sat where. I mean, he had a drawing of so he knew exactly who sits where. And you would just go around and see if he sees an empty place, you know exactly who was absent. So I think you're not gonna miss a meal.

Right? So No. And if you are 1 minute late or half a minute late I mean, if you'd if you don't if you're if you're in the wrong line as you fall as you enter into the to the dining room, then, you know, you cannot sit where, you're supposed to sit. So therefore, you will miss your mail. And in a boarding school, if you miss, 30 seconds or 1 minute, you know, I mean, you you'd be able to go without the mail.

Yeah. There's no cafe there's no, you you can't go to the, local store. No. No. There's no store.

We were boring. We were not allowed to leave the campus, period. Oh my god. We were allowed to leave the campus only once. I think it was 2, maybe even 3 weeks.

And and and that and and that only for half a day, maybe one day at most. So they had complete control over you. I mean, it's that's that's unimaginable. I mean, in this you have to I mean, now the parents you know, the the the teachers are afraid of the parents. No.

None of those. Yeah. I mean, I we're digressing, but, I mean, when I was in school in the school of education and they were talking about, you know, all this disorder in school, school, how do you call it? Discipline. Yeah.

School discipline. I didn't understand what they meant because, you know, we we took it for granted that we're well disciplined. We would say yes. We've got to I mean, yes. Yeah.

You you want, like, 30 seconds. I mean, you gotta be Yeah. Yeah. Juvenile delinquency was something that that was very foreign to our mind when when we and they all they talk to us about juvenile delinquency in American schools and in the school of education. Yeah.

That was a foreign concern. But not only that too. I mean, you know, I don't know if they ever said this to you, but if if you're ever threatened, that you had to, you know, be kicked out, there's no place to go. Exactly. There is no plan b.

No. There is no plan b. You are either, at the farm. You know? That's it.

Yeah. And, also, I mean, you your parents would be the first one to Yeah. Be on the side of the teachers. Oh, they would kill you. Yeah.

I know. You don't you have nowhere to go. So, I mean, you will you will be, you know so this was so you went from what to what? Because I mean, you did the you did the church school. Right?

So what grade or grade equivalent did you enter to have your recording? Okay. Well, the school was reorganized. I was, placed in grade 2 grade 2. So this is the beginning.

Yeah. Beginning. So how to work how you're aware to, at that time, it was only up to grade 6 because it was only primary school. But all in 1948, they got a special permission from the emperor to get a secondary section added to the Tafari Mokonnen. I should have perhaps said, a little earlier.

After Tafari Mokonnen was established reopened, 2 other schools were started. 2 secondary schools. Mhmm. 1 one was, the highest last first secondary school in Kotabe Kotabe on the road to Asmara, about 20 kilometers outside the city. And another school, Jarawinget School in Gulale.

I don't remember. So those two schools were the only secondary schools in the country in the mid and late forties. Wow. Yeah. And Tafarir Mokonnen later on, the the the secondary section of Tafarir Mokonnen became the third secondary, level institution, in 19.

I think it's they started about 19, 48, as I said, the secondary section. But so you would have been in 6th 8th grade. No? Or no? So that's so you weren't there?

Is that 2. Grade 2. Yeah. And then and then, in 19, 51, I think it is. But by then, I had left Harry Mocannon.

Yeah. In 1951, the government, system of education was reorganized too so that it was not a primary education became 1 to 8 instead of 1 to 6. Okay. Yeah. In any event, when I was in school, it was 1 to 6, so I entered grade 2.

But there was a lot of skipping of of grades. Like, I finished the entire primary elementary and secondary schools, between 19 43 and 1951. Wow. So that's how much eighties? 8 to make 12?

How did you do that? What the because as I said, you know, the first of all, you you would allow to skip if you did well in your school. You you skip 1 grade. Yeah. I must I I skipped grade 5.

I I know. And then from grade 6, we went straight to grade 9. That was good. Because the 7 and 8, you know, reserved for those who would go to vocational schools. It it was something that was added only when, the ministry reorganize the school system in 19 in 1951.

At the at the time we were there, I was there. 7:8 was kind of a a holding place because of because there are overage kids, you know, and and, they didn't know what to do with them. They can't just kick them out. To have to find a place to for them to go to either, the police academy or or the air force or the technical school. So they would be they would put them in grade 7 and 8, and then they will look for possibilities of where to place them.

So from 6, 7 and 8 was I was too young, you know, to be in that category. So from 6, we went to grade 9. They call it form 1, form 2, form 3, but the equivalent of grade 9. And then the second from 9, I think I skipped another grade. Wow.

So Oh, yeah. So all said, I took the school living certificate examination, the which came from London at that time. You know, we all start for the London School examinations in 19, 51. How old how old are you? Do you remember?

Yes. I remember. 1951, I would I would have been 17. Wow. So you were so in America, that was equivalent to 12th grade, 17, 18.

Yeah. Right? So you ended up kind of equivalent for your age group, but Yeah. You started later. Right?

I mean or you started, you know, because you were out. You were at the preschool for a while. That's not no. I started when I was about 9. You which would have been 3rd grade or yeah.

Exactly. I'm 4th grade here. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then but then it's funny.

You you you didn't start, I guess yeah. Then within 2 years, you were catching up. Right? So they moved you forward. Exactly.

But even I remember, I mean, when I was in Saint Joseph, there was a lot of talk about, skipping grades. I mean, you know, it's you come here and, you know, skipping grades is a big deal. You know, you they, you know, you they don't like to do that here. No. I know.

Because everybody moves with this age group. Yeah. There there there is no such thing as an age group because, as I said, the school had any, kids between 17 7 20 years old. Yeah. So it's all mixed up to start with.

Yeah. But but, of course, over the years, they have been weeding it. The Jesuits have have been weeding them out. Yeah. And, by the time I completed, it was more or less according to Age group.

Yeah. More or yeah. According to age group. Yeah. More or less, but not quite completely.

So what other memories do you have of the teachers? I mean, it sounds I mean, I it's hard to imagine boarding school if you've never been in it. Right? I mean, I've I I've never been in it. We've we've seen movies, you know, in books and such, but it's I mean, it's really hard to imagine.

I mean, what it was all boys. Right? Yes. It was absolutely. And it's and it's small?

Yes. About 450, maximum 500 borders. Another about the same amount maybe a little more these schools Tafarimokonden over the years became by the time I left the school, it was the la one of the largest schools in the country. It had over a 1000 enrollment. Wow.

A little less than half boarding in the in the balance, this school, 45% to 55%, something like that. Mhmm. Now you're asking me what was, what what what I thought of the school. Well, you know, I have a very, very fond memory of the school. I mean, that's a school that's a place where I made, lifetime friends Mhmm.

Boarding school. I mean, there's some of the my closest friends even now. I mean, a good many of them are dying off and and so forth. Or but, you know, we met we met there. And at that time, there was no such thing as, I mean, you know, no nobody paid attention to ethnicity.

I mean Yeah. We're all boarding, so my next neighbor would have be would have come from, Gamugofa or Tigray or and, you know, but we were all boarding. We're all school. And, I mean, some of my best memories of, my childhood are from school. We had a big band, school band with drums and and and and we drilled every time we had in between classes.

You know? Mhmm. There was drilling there, and, there was we were we went to Christmas celebrations at the palace. The emperor would hand out, gifts of sweaters and orange and Yeah. And cake to virtually all kids.

At the time, he could do it himself, but, eventually, you know, there there are too many. So, he did it for doctor Farimu Conan and his wife. The empress did it for in school. But later on, the royal family, you know, his, the other members of the royal family also handed out these, sweaters. And so the sweaters were of different colors.

I mean, like, was yellow, was red and empress manon was green. This is that the Ethiopian flag. And later on, when we get and came, what what what what they do have their own colors. I mean Who are the peep do you remember the names? Like, I'm sure you do.

Who are the people? I I must know some of them. Right? Like, you say the people you stayed friends with. Like like, who's from Teferi Mokonnen?

At least of the people I know. Oh, let's see. Professor Asrat, you remember? Asafas, a guy whom you know, all too many to mention. I mean, I all the friends I have had, when you were growing up were either from the Faroe Mohammed or the or or or university college.

Yeah. Yeah. And and and they all, you know, the product of just education. I think I think also the boarding school. I mean, I think, you know, we make friends in college, but you live with them.

You know, my friends from high school are not as I mean, the few I have were close, but they disappear. You know, people go their own ways. But I guess if you live with them, you know, that's, very intimate. Well, there was only one city, Addis Ababa, and and, you know, government services, government or the The employer. Employer.

Yeah. Well, we we we, you know, we we bump into each other virtually every day, you know, either in meetings or weddings or luxo. I mean, yeah. And when we get we get married, we were each other's, best man, and, no, we it was a life problem. But one thing I want to underscore, about this period was it it was a period of, great nationalism in in Ethiopia because this was immediately after, the war.

We we were, for all practical purposes, the 1st generation or post war generation of, Ethiopian students, you know, after after that one. And, I mean, there was an air of, nationalism that just just permeating our entire life. Well If everyone if anyone ask you what would you like to do when you you finish school? The first answer, virtually, the only answer is I want to serve my country. Wow.

Service service. Mhmm. Love the country. We would would raise flags in the morning and and in the afternoon. I mean, the the radios, the newspapers, and every the mass media was all about, unity and independence.

I mean, you know, and one good thing also that, as part of our education is that the teachers, even the Jesuits and all virtually all of the teachers made sure that we were not anti Italians in spite of the fact that Italian had colonized our I mean, occupied our country, killed our father I mean, our parents and so on. They wanted us to make clear that Italians are Christians and that our enemies are we're the fascists, not the Italians. Wow. That's pretty profound. I mean, it's and they're asking for reconciliation.

They you know, and nobody even nobody even asked them to ask for reconciliation. Alright? It was just the right thing to do. The first speech that the emperor gave when he returned from exile was leave the Italians alone. Really?

Yeah. It it is inscribed in the big monument, the, liberation, monument in Arathkilo. After all the slaughter? I mean, that's incredible. Yes.

I mean, they stayed on as mechanics. They were intermarried. You know, the Italian fight the soldiers that came to Ethiopia was from the southern Italian region Yeah. Calabria. They were country folks.

They were just recruited by the fascists and sent to to Ethiopia. So they were not educated. They didn't have much skill. So they ended they remained in the country as tech tech technicians. They they will demand the garages, the car garages.

I understand. The electricity was Italian, the, the electric company. So they they were the skilled laborers that were left. And and If you think about it, that's really amazing. I mean, just in just from that one capsule.

I mean, to think you would never think of it that way. Right? But that's a you know, at this point, that's a first world country immigrant to a third world. Right? So they're thinking there's a better opportunity for me here than back home in the southern Italy.

Yeah. I mean, later on, I know of many cases of Italians who are who did who refused to go back to, Italy. Even, in the earlier periods when the British were there, they wanted them to return back to Italy, but they they refused. A good man of them refused. They didn't have any place to go to.

They've been there a long time too. Yeah. So, now they, So what what what what was the I mean, you said we were the first post war generation. How much Yeah. How much I mean, you know, Ethiopia was a nation state before and, you know, and after the war.

Yeah. How how, you know, what was the change? Is it or another way to ask it is, how much more modern did you feel? Like, is there because, I mean, a lot of things happen. Right?

I mean, they know the whole western you know, the World War 2, you know, came, you know, burning through the country. Right? I mean, so what was different, I guess, is what I'm asking. Well, for I mean, you know, I I don't know. I don't know how the school I mean, there are it's very hard to compare the pre and post because it's a different generation.

It was a quite a sharp a sharp Yeah. Change. Yeah. Yeah. But Also also people died.

I mean, I'm just Yeah. I just wondered. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for one thing, the government was more centralized.

Mhmm. There were ministries of, for everything. I mean, ministry of education, ministry of agriculture, health, everything. Whereas in the old days, I mean, each province was more or less, autonomous. And they had a or an and he was in charge of the.

That's that's kind of my point. I mean, sort of the the feudal the feudal architecture was destroyed by the Italians. I mean, that that wasn't their goal, but that's sort of what happened. Right? Exact yeah.

Yeah. Well, it this was started even before the war. He he he was trying. Yeah. He was trying.

The emperor one of the emperor's major innovations was to centralize the government, you know. And professionalize it. But I mean, but the Yeah. The Italians sort of torched it too. I mean, you know Yeah.

Yeah. He actually that that that helped tremendously. I mean, some of the feudal lords or who are, who are retarding progress for the emperor who, you know, they they died or they they collaborated with the Italians. So they were persona non grata kind of thing. So he had a free hand after the war to do whatever he wanted.

I mean, this is almost got sent for him in a way. Yeah. I mean, it's How about how about media? I mean, was that a big factor? I mean, you know, the radio and things like that.

I mean, how much does that change the conversation or sort of the the the the mood? It's it's very it's I don't know. You you have a good point there. I mean, of course, radio I mean, people didn't have radios. Not too many people had radios.

The where we went to hear listen to radio or in in certain public places, you know, they had these large megaphones in Atarath Kilo, in, and in in, in Piazza, and in the Saint George's Cathedral. So even when we're in college no. Not college. Yeah. Even in college, you know, people would just go there around 6 o'clock in the evenings or after during lunch hour and listen to the radios, on on these public squares.

Mhmm. It is only gradually that people started to buy radio sets. And later on, of course, these transistor radios came in, but then then changed the entire, mass media situation in the country and and all over the world before that matter. Yeah. But, you're right.

The newspapers and, that helped, also this nationalism that I was talking about at the beginning. You know? Yeah. It has to be attended. It has to be, nurtured.

I mean, it doesn't just happen on its own. Yeah. One thing I want to add, you know, about the school is how competitive the school was. I mean, for instance, in every grade at the end of the year in a there will be of course year end examinations And in the assembly hall, they would read, Martha or Ziffel. Ziffel, the assistant director, Dio Ziffel, would read the rank school class ranks for every grade.

Grade Oh my god. Grade 1, number 1st, so and so, 2nd, so and so, 3rd, so and so. If there is a, the same grade, then the 3rd, so and so and so and so, you know, if there are 2 of them. Yeah. And then all the way down to the last guy.

And this is for every single grade. Oh my god. This would take hours. Yeah. Do you know?

Sometimes, I think they would do it, over a you know? Well, let's see. Yeah. It would take maybe 3, 4 hours. I don't know.

Yeah. Yeah. We have, a thousand people. Yeah. Yeah.

That would be the that's 1. Then secondly, in every grade, there would be, special little certificates, diploma, I mean, the little yeah. Diplomas, I mean, like, what your daughter got when she went into the, she became, in the dean's no. No. No.

No. Yeah. Something a little bit a little sheet of a little card, would be given for those who were first in a particular subject. So take great great, grade 3 for instance. Grade 3, so and so top in the heart 1st in Amharic.

1st, so and so first in English. So and so first in in science. And and every single subject like that. His name was me publicly named, and he would get a little a little, card, as I said, who's so so and so was first in his grade and in the year, you know, that would indicate his name, his grade, the subject, and the year. And sometimes if the good students would collect, you know, there could be, 1 car 1 kid could gather as many as 6 or 7 cars because if he's first in English and Arabic and mathematics and so on and so on.

Yeah. So the good students, I shouldn't say this, but I I used to collect quite a few of these. Oh, really? Yeah. In geography and, and English and, Arabic, except I I don't remember about arithmetic, but I had quite a few of those cards.

And I had them stored in at home for a long time. I think they got lost over the years. Yeah. But it it shows how competitive it was. Was that I mean, is that within the culture?

Was that That that what what that's that's foreign, isn't it? I mean, I I don't is that sort of this egalitarian? And I mean, it's not very Ethiopian in a sense, I guess. No. No.

It's just part of the Jesuit, system. Yeah. The Jesuits, in in I think in their schools, everywhere, they do that. It's all the same in the in sports. Each class will have a team, soccer team.

Yeah. Like, grade 8 or 6. Grade 6 will have, 1st, team, 2nd team, and 13 depending on the skill. So those who are very good in, good in the they would be in the first team. So those who are intermediate, so and so would be in the 2nd team.

And and then there will be intra class, competitions throughout the year. Nonstop. Nonstop. What did the what did the what did the parents think about all this? Do you remember this?

You were going I mean, in the one break you got for 2 months. I mean, do do you go home with your report card certificates, or do do they do they come back and tell you you should try harder? I mean, what what was the interaction? I mean, you know, it was a source of pride for, most parents. But, it's I mean, those parents didn't go to the same kind of school, so it's very hard for them to Mhmm.

Give give you advice or to guide you or to tell you, you know, you instead of this, do that. I mean but, you know, they were they they were very supportive, very supportive, and it was a source of pride for their parents to for their kids to to be on this list. Yeah. Very few of them came to school. I mean, I I don't remember my mother or any of my relatives coming to visit me at school.

It's it's me who would go after, 3 weeks or whatever we had the day off or a lot to leave the campus. Would go and visit them. But the bottom line is from grade 2 to the end of university university college, undergraduate college, I was boarding and not living at home. Yeah. Now what You is that is it is there a summer vacation?

What about is it or is it Thomas? Yes. No. Mhmm. There is a summer vacation, and that was another good thing about the Farimakhon School.

Those who had parents in the city would be allowed to go home. Yeah. Those who came from the provinces would be given some money to, go on on buses or the train to wherever they came from. Yeah. Those who didn't have anywhere to go to really, I mean, their parents may not be of, in a position to, you know, entertain them or to have them there.

And the kids who didn't want to go there, they would be allowed to stay be at on the campus. Oh, really? Then the school would organize all kinds of indoor games. All kinds of indoor games. I can't I can't remember them, but some of the things that they had in America, you know, monopoly and this and that.

I don't remember all those names. As well as the soccer games. But the soccer games were less in the summer because it was rainy. But not the rest of it, you know, the but and and they would have elections, and they would have their their own, prefects and so forth. So it was a city.

They would teach them how to govern themselves. You know, there were some someone in charge of the, recreation activities, someone in charge of the, extracurricular activities. And so and in fact, it was a pleasure for us to sneak in, you know, who would come from home and then try to see what they were doing because they were they were well taken care of for. Fun. Yeah.

It looks sounds like a lord of Yeah. Lots of fun there. Listen. It sounds like the lord of the flies. You know, like, the kids set up their own world.

Exactly. Now what about that? What about Gashkafla? I mean, you know, did you guys see each other a lot? Were you guys close during this time?

I mean, do you what what was I mean, you're you're you're the only brothers. Right? I mean, this it's just you too. Right? Yeah.

We were one grade apart. Mhmm. When I was in grade 2, it would be in grade 1. When I was in grade 4, it would be in grade 3. 1 year apart throughout our, career.

Mhmm. Yeah. So did you guys help each other with homework? I mean, what, what was the interaction? We were close, really.

You know? One grade was not all that much. Yeah. But he had his own circle of friends. I had my own circle of friends, but they're all but the the 2 circles kind of, they're not a Michelin exclusive, you know.

There there is all overlapping membership of the 2 groups. Yeah. So so, they are we are close. We are quite close, actually, as brothers go. Did you guys fight?

I mean, were you guys competitive? I mean, what do you know, brother brothers have all kinds of different relationships. Uh-huh. But we're in different classes, so there was no academic competition to speak of. He has he has to compete with his own class, and I I do it my own.

Fighting? Not really. No. We're about the same age. I I was very quiet by myself throughout my, childhood.

Kifrin was more outgoing. He was more outgoing. He was more he participated more in sports, both at the Farimakon and in college. I I did not. Like, for instance, in the soccer teams, I told you that each class had 3 teams.

Yeah. I I was relegated into the last the the the the third team. That was Wow. Yeah. Right.

Could play with probably be the intermediate. So it I mean these rankings are very interesting in another way like for instance the second team of grade 6, would play the first team of grade 3. You know what I mean? I mean, they they were that good? I mean, that's amazing.

Because even though they're older Yeah. They may not be, soccer wise, as, adept as the ones in grade 3. That's what I'm saying. The the differential is so high. They could play 2 years above them.

That's pretty impressive. Well, I I mentioned grade 3, but it could have been just the next grade. But but so it what I was trying to say is grade. Team 3 does not always play team 3 of another one. It could be Yeah.

Yeah. Another, you know, a higher team or a lower team depending on the age of the kids in that school, in that grade. Was there were there other ceremonies? I mean, nowadays, there's a graduation for every grade and, you know, every time there's an honor roll, the, you know, the parents supposed to come and and Yeah. Pop.

I mean, so what what I mean, was there other ceremonies that, you know, they were sort of official besides the reading of the, the scores? There are 2 major ones. 1, as I mentioned, a little earlier is the Christmas one where we would go in in, you remember I mentioned about our, band? We would march, you know, in an information. Every school would, march to you you like that.

We had our own band and then an emblem. The school emblem, was a was a cow being, mixed, you know. It was it was so the the big cow So that's a that's an agricultural school motto. Look. It was So that was that was a big flag.

That will be at the beginning, and then next to it will be the Ethiopian flag. And in in in in in in in straight disciplined, march to the Paris, other schools would come the same way, and we would receive our presents from the emperor. That was Christmas. And this is for all schools, on on the numbers. In in in Addis Ababa, I mean, it's almost like a military parade.

Yeah. He was he was he was parading his students. In in the provinces, the, the governors did the same thing for the took the place of the emperor in their own provinces. So the governor of Goja would do the same thing for his school. You know?

Yeah. Yeah. Marsh him through. That's amazing. Yeah.

I mean, that you nobody would do that now. It's amazing. I mean, it's like so you guys are the most important thing there was. Yes. But that died kind I mean, it became impossible as a number of kids, grew and, it was impossible for the palace to hold all those kids.

I mean, this kind of died, a natural death didn't last all the all the years. But the first few years, I don't know, maybe the first 7, 8, 10 years, it was like that. That was the first. And at the end of the year, or that I should have mentioned, we would again assemble in the other palace, the old palace, that the the the old Gippee. Millek.

Which was the emperor. Yeah. Millek's Palace. Yeah. There would be given presents for for the emperor would hand out presents for the first, the second, and the third from each grade.

Wow. Yeah. The Farimucon in grade 1, grade 2, up to grade 6, and later on up to grade 9. The same with Minnie Leek and so forth and so on. And and the the presents are usually books.

Mhmm. Amharic books, English books. Although, there are times when I remember someone from, another from, I think, from the Wingate School being given a, a typewriter. Wow. And you're too young to carry it.

In fact, I met his son not too long ago, and I was telling you how I remember his father, trying to carry a big time After so after 5, 6 decades later. And, that was, the end of that till the end of the year, and that would be covered in the newspapers. It would be a big affair in the radio, and sometimes they would print the names of each one of these, kids in the in in the in the newspaper. Yeah. It was a big deal.

Yeah. So you so, I mean, this is the emperor as a human. I mean, you guys walked into his house almost. Right? I mean, that's, I mean, unimaginable.

Yes. I don't know if you knew this, Phil, but, you know, for the, you know, the first cabinet after the war, 1941, did have a minister of education. He was a Harvard graduate. But after that, after he was transferred to something else, that nobody else became a minister of education. The emperor kept the portfolio to himself for many, many years, and he would appoint a vice minister who was the actual administrator of the educational system.

But in terms of policy and in terms of importance and to show how much he gave importance to education. He kept the, the portfolio to himself for many, many years, and, only vice ministers, were appointed. It is, I think, the next minister of education to be appointed was much later in 19 sixties. So Wow. Yeah.

For close to 20 years. What? Close to 20 years. Yeah. Yeah.

He was the minister of education as well. So that shows how much he, importance he gave. Now I I think I mentioned the dorm life, how disciplined it was, how punctuality. I mean, you know, we'd start up start we'd get up at 6 o'clock in the morning. Mhmm.

I'm gonna do wash. I mean, there was no indoor plumbing. You remember, you must remember in those days. So, there are a few tops outside. So we would go there and, you know, for the wash our faces and so forth.

It's freezing cold. You're freezing cold. Yeah. Especially at the Faroe Makonim because we were just under the total mountains. And then 7 o'clock was breakfast.

You have to be there on time. No breakfast, otherwise. Classes, 8. You have to be on time. Otherwise, you know, you you would be punished.

You know, you you just capital punishment was quite widespread. Mhmm. Ziffel Ziffel had a a bet. I mean, what today, I would call it a best. You know?

It's a it's a rubber thing that you would you would hit your palm depending how serious it was. Anything from 5 to I think the top one was 40. Oh my god. Yeah. So it's not easy task.

Do the other kids help you? I mean, what happens if you oversleep? Do the other kids make make sure you don't get in trouble, or they just No. No. They slink out so they don't get in trouble themselves?

No. No. There are, house prefects. They will wake you up. Okay.

And they make sure that you leave the place and so forth and so. At night, lights are out by 9. Sometime when we grow older, in secondary school it was 10. You know? Every Sunday, we would go to church, the boarding schools.

In fact, again, in 1947 or 48, they built a church, which is now, you know, for everybody. But in those days, it was really for the Tafari Mokkonen School and Empress Mokkonen School. Somewhere in between the the two campuses, there was this Medanial Island School that, I don't know if you remember. It is just north of the university. Yeah.

It was made for us. So, so we'd go to church, have mass. They're also very disciplined. So what so what was the elective? What was yeah.

What did you I mean, you know, lights on, lights off, you know, short, I mean, so, you know, I but after class, you had sports and then you're expected to eat and study. I mean so what what was flexible? Last question. Never arose to ask. Because that's the answer, isn't it?

Can you repeat the question here? Yeah. It's just, you know, very competitive academically, sport wise, every grade, every subject, self discipline. You had to strive to serve your country. It was a post war nationalism at its height.

The emperor knew everything. That was the atmosphere, you know, that we grew up. It was only in the domestic holiday, I think, when we went there, you know, some kind of a little leniency. Even there, you still are the Jesuits. So it's still boarding, but it was a little bit more lenient.

We could go out of the campus. We could, because we were right in the middle of, so we we could go out of the campus, but we have to come back by a certain hour. Wow. At night, lights were out definitely by 11 by 10. No.

11? 10 or 11. I forget. And, of course, there are a few choices of subjects. You could take 1 or the other.

I mean, so it was we'll talk about the university college in our next session. So there is a little bit of choice and options when we get to the college. But even there, it was very limited. Nothing like the wild university study back in the air. Yeah.

In this country. But the at Tafar and Macquinnon, you chose no subject. Right? I mean, the curriculum was set from beginning to end. Absolutely.

Absolutely. The the curriculum, the the yes. The schedule. The schedule. Everything.

Basically, you were just told. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was there was there ever an issue of money?

I mean, were there kids whose parents couldn't afford the school or, you know, where did money come in? Good question. Money was not a factor at least for the borders because, you know, we were fed free. School supplies were free. There was nothing but the only difference was clothing.

Mhmm. For our clothing, the government issued clothing twice a year. Governor, you know, but the Jesuits are particularly, Ziffel, took it on himself, and I guess I guess he got the permission of the emperor through Matt because Matt then became a very close, hard, easy access to the emperor. So they must have consulted. What they did was they, the Jesuits differentiated the students in terms of their socioeconomic background.

Mhmm. Those who had the means who who came from wealthier homes were not given the, clothing. Their clothes was given out to those who came they would keep them aside and and give it as an additional closing to those who don't who don't have anything, you know, who don't know family to help them. You know what I mean? Those who came from the provinces or even from those who from our Oh, so wait.

So they so they hoarded sort of so the government supplied clothes just to the school, and then they decided who to give it to. Exactly. Like, Kefli Kefli and I, we were never given the government, issued closing. They would keep it and give it away to to somebody else. They would they wouldn't, you know, not that the one who received it wouldn't know that it was our I mean, it was just done by the by the teachers, so nobody asked me any questions.

You know? Wow. Yeah. So who paid for the school? I mean, it was all so the government paid for everything.

Government paid for everything. Wow. It's a huge investment. It was huge investment. I mean Yeah.

Look. I mean, the I mean, they built, a new dormitory, new classrooms. The ones that, the emperor had inaugurated in 1920 24, Astafare Mokonno School was easily, you know, many times more in terms of facilities, physical facilities, and, how much the government spent from its own meager resources, it's unbelievable. I mean, I can look up the figures and and give some statistics if we have, the okay to revisit this subject. But, the laboratory equipment was entirely bought by the government.

Even when we finished college, Phil, we were sent out on government scholarships. The government paid for me at Harvard entirely. Uh-huh. Even at Columbia. Even at Columbia.

Up up to a point, you know, up to my master's degree. After that, you know, I I did my own. But, foreign assistance to education, particularly for scholarships, overseas didn't start until, oh, maybe 57, 58. You know, just, top of my head. Wow.

Yeah. So otherwise, it was entirely financed from k to college by the government. Now it was a small system in terms of, how many of the school age kids were in school. Yeah. He's very few.

I mean, what we know what is in education called participation, ratio, you know, like, if you take the entire school age population, 6 to 11 Yeah. How many kids in the country are sick age 6 to 11? End of that, what percentage is in school, it will be very, very small. Yeah. I mean, I think by the time I left the country, it was not more than 20, 25.

At the beginning, obviously, it was probably 1% or even less, you know? Yeah. So it was a small school system, but whatever it was, it was entirely done by government. Well, you know, you also got the benefit. I mean, it's like the first child.

I mean, you know, as more kids enter the system, each of them got less. Yeah. So, you guys got disproportionate benefit. I mean, not not to mention the disproportionate recognition, but, I mean Yeah. Still, I mean, you know, it was, you know, it was an amazing time, you know, to be there.

Absolutely. I mean, exactly. You you mentioned a good point. Like, boarding was abolished. They just couldn't cope with that.

I mean, there was no more boarding by, 1959, 60. Boarding was abolished throughout the country. Really? Yeah. Because for every boarding students, they could have 3, 4 a school students.

You know? So the the accent now was on, creating the access expansion. Yeah. Expansion And So what happens to the provinces then? So these kids couldn't, go back.

I mean, so so they just didn't come to the frame of equipment. I mean, it just became a day school? Yeah. And, the schools, the provinces got their own secondary schools. Yeah.

The day schools, I mean, day schools, secondary schools and primary schools were built in virtual all all provinces. Yeah. Not many, but they didn't have to come to Addis, in other words. Yeah. Like like tech Kakali.

Yeah. He he got all his education, elementary education in Goree. And it is only when he entered secondary school that he was transferred to Adis. Later on, they opened a secondary school. So even those who finished primary school would go to a secondary school in Gore, but, at least in his case, he came to, this for his secondary education.

Wow. Where's Gore? Gore is in Elubabble. Elubabble. Western Ethiopia.

Western Ethiopia. Western Ethiopia. Not far from So this is this is not the this is a tangent again, but the the network of secondary schools in the provinces was built before the sixties, I mean, with the emperor as the minister? Yes. Because that's a huge administrative undertaking.

I mean, you know, that's Yes. For emperor to do that. I mean, I don't know for anybody to do that much as, you know, the emperor who has, of course, the full, you know, portfolio, right, as emperor. Right? He's commander in chief and everything.

I mean Yeah. I mean, although he he held the portfolio, as I said, he had, people believe the bomb, obviously. Yeah. The vice minister was in charge of the school system, really, for all practical purposes. And then there will be departments, you know, teacher training, curriculum, probably elementary, secondary, whatever.

You know? Yeah. So he didn't, have day to day. But in terms of policy, there was a, he he And and and resource allocation in the end. I mean, that's what you know?

Yeah. He he's his own audience. Yeah. So so the fact that Conan expanded while you were there because it when you said the dates earlier, it didn't make sense to me that you were there when they added the secondary. So you were there as they added the secondary portion?

Yes. Yes. I was in the second, group. So could secondary school was added, in, I think, 48, I said. Yeah.

I think I entered secondary school in 49. Or 48 at the at the end of 48, beginning of 49 and finished by 51. So I stayed in secondary school only two and a half years. Yeah. Just just in time to start the university college.

Right? You're the second you're the second class there also. Right? The 2nd class there as well. Yeah.

You might have missed it if you got you had it too fast. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. So you've actually I mean, in the as a secondary school student or, I don't know, primary school student, do you met the emperor?

Like, did you did you do you shake his hand or do you touch him, or do you stand next to him? What happens? Well, that's a good question too. He would come to school to visit many times a year. At the Farimucon, he would come on average once a month.

And, I mean, it was announced? I mean, tomorrow, the emperor is visiting? Or just show up? He would show up, in the door no. In the, cafeteria usually.

He would In the cafeteria of all places? I mean, the emperor would work here. He would also visit school, classes. But I was going to give you the example in the cafeteria. He would come with food for us.

He would come with fruits, for instance. Grapes or oranges or fish. Something that was different that we interact on. And that was a big deal. You know?

He would go around and and talk to students and and and he would remember. And I mean, if he talked to you today and he comes back, a month later, and, you would remember what you told him a month earlier. And you you said might have forgotten him, but he would remember. He has a fantastic memory. Now I see it in books that, you know, how people, remember, mentioned that how what what fantastic memory he had, but now I believe it.

He would also come to visit us classrooms, go from one class to another. He would visit us. He would visit during sport events. Sport was big thing in the Jezetu world. He would come.

We had shows, cultural shows, theaters, place. He would come there and become the, He's he's like the doting parent. I mean, he brings the birthday cake and, and then he comes to the place. I mean Yes. Yes.

Yes. What would he wear? Usually, civilian clothes. You mean, like, a suit? Yes.

Yes. A suit and an and a a a top. I mean, how do you call it? A hat? A clock

A clock? Clock? Is that what you call it? Yeah. A clock.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And you'd come it was very simple. So I mean, the only the only the only pictures I ever see was, like, military with a hat and the and the and the and the full regalia. Yeah. Yeah. He would come to the cafeteria and sit down in a chair, or would he stand No.

No. No. He would go around, and he would go you just go, will will will Matt will be next to him? That would that would the Matt will get all his request approved during this visit. I see.

You see what somehow just said this happened. That's why, you know, and then they would okay. No. He would go from one row to another row, and then he would finish it. You know?

And we would we would yeah. Were you intimidated? I mean, do you remember being scared if he walked towards you? Or what what would you I mean Yes. Yes.

Yes. We just looked down and said, and you turned out to Fra. Don't don't be afraid. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And did he ever talk to you? Do you remember? Yes.

Many times. He would ask me. Many times? Wow. Well, yeah, who he would ask me who who was my father?

I would tell him and Yeah. That that's the first question he would ask. Later on, he stopped asking the parentage because not everybody he didn't know the parents of every kid in the school. But at the beginning, you know, he knew, particularly those of us because the the first group, as I mentioned to you, were, from parents whose. The yeah.

Yeah. The patriots. Yeah. Who had died for the country or have been jailed or, yeah, killed by the Italians. So he he he knew many of the parents, not all, but many of them.

Did he say anything to you about your dad? Yeah. The same thing that I told you before. He was a a patriot. He was he knew he loved his country.

He was, He was our good servant. Wow. Yeah. That's. So so your head would swell up.

I mean, so then he'd leave and he'd, you know, all the students would have to look up to you now. Well, he would say I mean, the next guy would be the same. His father might have a big kid in one in one of the other fields. So he he thought I wasn't anything special about that. You know?

But, Yeah. It was a close family. It was a close family. He was like father, as you said before. Yeah.

He or his kids. I mean, sort of his, you know, his second family. I mean, he took it very personally. Yeah. A book has just been written.

I I I read the first draft that describes the emperor as that that, describes the emperor as as a human being. Mhmm. You know, what he did as, not as a king or emperor, but that small little thing that he did to people. You know, like one day, this is a complete aggression. But, like one day, he saw a while he was driving throughout this, he saw a donkey that was overloaded with all kinds of stuff, you know?

Mhmm. So he stopped his car according to this book. He he bought the whole load there. I mean, he paid off the for the boat and took and got, bought the, took the, donkey and, put it in his stable with the horses. I mean, that kind of That would spread the legend, Peter, even among the donkeys.

I mean, I mean, it's a I mean, you know, the truth is, again, it's a tangent, but the most successful leaders are the ones, you know, who remain human. I mean, you hear the stories about Ted Kennedy sending birthday cards. You know? I mean, you know, the that's, you know, the the these don't these are not separate things, you know. It's not like it's not like you're a human and a leader, you know.

They're they're they're integral. Yeah. But this is good stuff. Okay. But, does it give you a flavor of, the primary what kind of school I attended in primary Absolutely.

Okay. Absolutely. I mean, I wish I'd seen it. I mean, does it look anything like that now? I mean, if you is the campus still there?

Does it look anything like you remember it? Yeah. Well, I visited it once only, but, it was during the rainy season, so there are no kids in the school. I mean, it was a it was vacation time. Mhmm.

Of course, there are no boarding schools anymore. No boarding students. It's now coeducational. Its name has been changed. He's no longer Tafarimocanon because the dark, the military didn't like the emperor, obviously.

They've reposed him. So they don't want to call it, the the didn't want the name to remain. So it was called in Toto School because that's secondary school or something like that. It's a different school, but, I, you know, not visiting the just walking around the campus. The guard was there, wouldn't allow me at the beginning.

But when I explained to him that I'm a former students 50 years ago or whatever the number of years was at the time. So he he he took pity on me, and he allowed me to go, but he told me to come back to come out within a half hour or an hour or whatever. Or else. But I walked around and visited the old classrooms and the old dormitories and so forth and so on. It's it's it's a shadow of its old self.

I mean, it's, it's gone in. I mean, the the disrepair, the windows are broken. This athletic field is, I mean, it was the rainy season, so it was full of grass and wild, you know, wild grass. And, it it wasn't well kept, well managed, the flowers. And, you know, it's as I said, it didn't remind me of the old school, but I it it brought back nostalgia of, you know, of of my old school days.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so so maybe we can stop here, but let me let me let me give you a homework assignment. Okay.

Since, since it turns out, by coincidence, you are in fact going to Ethiopia next week. Yeah. And you have a camera. Yes. I do.

So, you know, why don't you take, you know, pick 4, 5, or 6 locations. Uh-huh. Right? I mean, and then maybe, the church you walk by to take your preschool or, you know, the gates of the university, maybe some buildings. And then, of course, we haven't even gotten to your little career yet when you came back.

Right? Yeah. And, take some pictures what you can, and we can do a side project, you know, along with the audio interviews. We could do a a a narrated slideshow. We can take some pictures and and you can talk over them.

We'll pick out and we'll we'll curate them and we'll have a little running, talk show. Okay. That's a good idea. I I can do that for Tafari Mokonnen School, but I don't think I can do that for the preschool field. I don't even know.

I I can't even locate it where it is now. I mean, the whole area has changed. I mean, it was, remember it is all all eucalyptus trees and the forest. Yeah. Now it's now it's houses.

Yeah. So it's completely houses. I don't know where it is now. Yeah. Well, yeah, at least you have a you could maybe the house in Gululele.

I mean, I think your mom your mom's house is still there, is it, or it's not? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's still there.

Yeah. That I can do. Yeah. You can do that, and certainly the university. I mean, you know Yeah.

The university college is there, but it's, yeah, it's it's it's much larger and a lot more crowded, but I can take pictures of yeah. That's a good idea. And but even but then even things that you walked by, I mean, I don't know what I don't know how was your you know, you there I'm sure there's some commutes you did. I mean, you know, during college, these are the places you went to every day or every week you went here. I mean, I don't know.

There's an either a favorite restaurant or this is the way I went home. I always walk by this store. I this is where I bought my shoes. I mean, I don't know. There must be some collection of things that, you know, that if they weren't particularly, you know, they're they're not, by themselves, you know, photogenic, but, you know, they're they're they're touchstones

Yeah. Yeah. I can do that. That's a very good idea. Yeah.

In fact, I I will take my camera. I hadn't thought of taking a camera, but I think it's a good idea to do that. Yeah. I'll do a demo. Yeah.

Do a bunch. And then the other thing you may wanna do is since since there aren't a lot of digital facilities, there are really if you if you if you take the trouble. But what you might wanna do is take an extra, a memory card. I have a memory card. Yeah.

I will talk with you. Yeah. You have a second one, you know, if you fill 1 up. Yeah. Anyway, that's all.

Okay. Well, that's your that's the end of your homework assignment. I I having heard your secondary school performance, I have no doubt you'll complete it in flying colors. Yeah. Yeah.

That. So the one the at the end of the secondary school Yeah. Are we still on? Yeah. Yeah.

As I told you, we sat for the London school matriculation. The examinations came straight from London, and it is the very same exam that land that kids in London took in England took, as well as in colonial Nigeria, and Kenya, and Tanzania, and so forth. And, it didn't follow the Ethiopian curriculum. And as an example, let me tell you. I mean, the we had to write an essay in English, and the three questions I remember up to now, the the I had a choice between write, write an essay on a I mean, a choice.

A, a busy post office, which I've never visited. A summer day at the beach. There is no there is a beach. I don't even know how the beach was. There's no summer in England anyway.

But yeah. Cool. And the third one was a happy day at the or a or a day at the at the market. Well, okay. That was reasonable.

That was that's the one I chose, obviously. That's the only one I could choose. And our group, my group, 1951, the one who took matriculation 1951 Yes. We we took the fur the last matriculation. The because after that, the London School of Matriculation stopped.

And they started what they call GCE, general certificate of education. Okay. Which was supposed to be more, accommodating. You know? We're talking to account a little bit more about these situations in in, outside England.

I mean, those schools in in Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Ghana, and so forth and so on. So that we were the first ones to take the GCE, and the last ones to take the, London matriculations. For us in Ethiopia, there was very little difference, really. Very little difference because they were both, very, very foreign. Yeah.

But, somehow, we managed to pass those exams and Wow. It's unbelievable. We now we now start to think about it, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it's the I mean, that's, you know, they you know, failure was not an option. I mean, you know, that's, Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was one thing. There was a fantastic, zeal, fantastic interest, motivation to succeed.

Yeah. Yeah. And and and this call for patriotism and nationalism, I I told you, plus the zeal that we had to to get education because we knew deep inside us that that the the only way out of poverty and out of anything and to, you know. So, between the 2, yeah. Yeah.

And and and also expectations were high. It's not simply that, you know, you're motivated too. I mean, you are expected, to do great things. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean yeah. Exactly. That was what, the radios everyday would say. Yeah. And it works.

Yeah. It's beautiful. So I let's let's let's stop here. I I that reminds me of an anecdote I heard recently, which I think you'll find interesting, but we'll stop here. I'm gonna stop recording, and we'll keep picking up later.

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