Mulugeta Wodajo

And, we're now recording. It's, 5:30 on, on, Sunday, December. Sorry. Yeah.

Saturday, December 27th. Sunday. Sunday. Is this Sunday? Oh, yeah.

My lord. Yeah. Sunday, December 27th. And, well, we're hoping Tizzy would show, but I I think she might be at work so because she hasn't responded to my message. Mhmm.

So, anyway, here we are. It's the first of, hopefully, a long, sequence of of interviews and, you know, with only the the goal of, you know, trying to remember as much as we can, about dad's life, and, and then the sort of the historical circumstances of it, which is fascinating. And, so we have a loose we have a loose outline. Today, we're hoping to cover topics having to do with your childhood. And, so I'll let you go.

And I think, you know, we're gonna maybe start with your parents, so this be my grandparents and then and then through the household. Okay. Well, first first, I I really thank you, Phil and Tizzy. This is, an excellent opportunity. It's something I should have done myself with my own parents, at least with my mother, because my father died before I was, I mean, you know, when I was still very very, early childhood.

So but I didn't do that, and I I regret it because there is so very little I know about, for instance, where they came from, their origins, where they were born, where, I mean, like, simple things, the date of their birth when they were born. I have no idea. I mean, I can guess. I can do some kind of arithmetic and and and and and and count the dates back. But I I just don't know.

So this was a this is a good, very thoughtful of you guys to to to do this. Now about childhood, really, there is so very little I remember. I remember, of course, that, when, I was only 3 years old, in fact, even less than 3 years old, my parents were taken prisoner to Italy. Both my father and my mother, as well as my brother, Kifli, and my, sister, Zima. They were taking Italy along with, oh, I understand about 300 other Ethiopians to Italy.

And, so we didn't I didn't get to to know my mother when, you know, when I was an infant. The my mother returned when after 2 years, just a little over 2 years, but my father died in Italy. They were jailed from what my mother tells me and what I've been reading lately in a place called Asinara. It's a small island just north of Sardinia, in Southern Italy. It's in fact between Sardinia and Italy.

No. Is it Sardinia, or what start island immediately below it? The boot. Sicily? The big one?

Sicily. Yeah. Sicily. Yeah. The big one.

Between Sicily between Sicily and the Italian, mainland. So these these are this is just a a small islands. Apparently, the is spelled in English, a s I n a r a, Asinara. That's the one who's it's pronounced Asinara in in Ethiopia. I don't know why.

Anyway, this place apparently has been used as a prison place, since the 1700. When they in in in terminal European wars, you know, in Austria and Hungary and so forth. Yeah. So so it was not unusual. So it was, kind of a very desolate place from what I live now, where they kept the Ethiopians there.

They were not all kept there. Some of them were kept in the big ones. I mean, the the the most natural ones, the big all those guys were kept in a suburb of Rome. The rest were kept in. The later on, they, from what I was told, they separated the men from the women, and many of the men were moved onto the mainland.

Like, my father was later moved to a place called Lungobuko. That's where he lived most of the time, I mean, as a prisoner, and where he also died and where he's buried. Is there is there any communication with them? I mean, do they have any freedom of prisoners and letters home? I feel there's a strong interference, as you talk.

Was there was there any inter is there any communication at home from these settings that update out to send letters? Did you hear anything? Did your family hear anything? Again, if it's you know, your voice was very muffled. I I heard you, but I don't think it will come out well recorded.

What do you talk? I can I can let me let me pause? I'm gonna I'm gonna we're back live. Yes. We okay.

Am I on now? Yeah. Okay. Yes. We had contacts.

I mean, interestingly, our house you remember the big house where you were born and where we used to live Mhmm. In. Of course. That big house, was rented to an Italian, businessman. Oh.

And one of the most interesting things is that that Italian businessman, I I even remember his name, Dita Ferrari. Ferrari. He used to give us information about how, you know, about my parents. In fact, he even paid the rent half of the rent or a portion of the rent in Italian lira Right. Which was which were, was paid directly to our parents in it, and the rest was the rest of the rent was used for, my upbringing as well as 2 sisters who had not gone with, my parents, Addis and, miss Liz mother, Elphinesh.

We also we also call, call her, Falagayot. And those two sisters were actually, boarding at the American Presbyterian School in Gulale. And it's a fascinating link between our family and that missionary school because my father apparently had helped doctor Lamby. He was the one who started the school. And as well as the hospital, the and the hospital was known as Lamby Bet in Gululele.

Later on, it became, pastor institute in the central laboratory where they do all the medical tests for stores and so forth. Anyway, the head of that teacher of of that school rather, miss Nicholl, spoke perfect. I'm hiring. And she considered me like her, adopted, son. And even when I was in college for once in a while when I stopped by the school, she would proudly introduce me to her teachers and whoever would listen, that I was, she called me mammo.

I was her mammo. I was her boy. Anyway, the rent, was paid a proportion of it in in Lire and went to and the other portion, was used to for our up upkeep. So so he was an Italian who came along with sort of the troops? I mean, he but or was he there before?

That's a good question. I I I really don't know. Or I know that he's a businessman, whether he came before the Italians or during the Italian that I don't know. But I I remember I remember his car, you know, coming in and out, but I don't know his, his his his background. No.

Where did you live? I mean, that was the house that we grew up in. Yeah. The the the house behind our house. Remember there where my mother used to live?

Yeah. That's where, we lived. And the big house was was your dad's house? I mean, that's where It was rented. It was rented while he was imprisoned?

Yeah. So I mean, it's kind of it's like a not a very, nice irony that the Italians rented the house after they kicked your dad out. I mean, my mother must have rented it just before she left. I I don't know when exactly it was rented, but it was it was rented for most of the time. And then what did they what did they I mean, how old were you when, your mom and dad were imprisoned?

Okay. The they were imprisoned around 1937. And I was born in 1934. So about 3. So I don't remember Yeah.

Much. You don't remember All I'm no. All I'm I too was taken along with all the other with the with the with Kifli and Zaman Mhmm. With my mother and father. But I cried throughout the night, the detention center, you know, where where the collection center for prisoners, where they brought in all these people from the various parts of town.

They kept them there and then before they were shipped out. So I I cried so much continuously that they that that the people who are with my mother, you know, the rest of the president said, you know, it it may it looked like as if I was not my mother's person. And in a way, you know, I was brought up by a nurse, by mom by a, guardian. I don't know what English word is for it. She isn't, you know Nanny?

Yeah. Nanny, but a bigger nanny kind of. She's an elder woman. Mhmm. And yeah.

So I was very, very attached to that woman. And in fact, that was the point I was going to take up after we've done with the Italian work. But, now that we're on it, I might as well tell you that, she's from the Oromo region. Mhmm. Her name was Bafana.

Mhmm. Bafana. Bafana. I was very, very attached to her. And, in fact, I used to sleep, in our bed, even when I was in in in in primary school and perhaps even in in in secondary school, but I don't remember when I stopped doing that.

Mhmm. And she had a room in the house behind the place where we lived. Do you remember that long, service quarters? The first room in the service quarter was her room, and and and I I used to that's where I where I grew up, really. That's where I stayed.

I I am you know, I slept that night. Anyway, the reason I was not taken with the mom and would to Italy was because I was so much tied to, Mama Bafena, as I called her. Mhmm. That, even the Italians were not in a in a in a situation to, leave me alone. I mean, to to take me away from her.

Wow. Yeah. So how old were, Gash Keflez and Teyza's mom? Were they older than you or they were younger than you? No.

Keflez is younger. Keflez is a year and half younger. Yes. She's mom who was let's she's 3 years older, so she must have been 6. Kufri was probably a year and a half, 2.

But he was in diapers. I mean, they had they they they took him to Italy in diapers? Yeah. Well, I don't know if he was in I don't know what what kind of diapers I had in those days. But, well, let me put it.

He was born 927. Okay? No. The 19, 27, it Ethiopian. 193035.

2 years at most? Yeah. Just under 2 years. A year and a half kind of thing. And then what the chronology is what?

I mean, so the Italians I'm trying to remember when the Italians came at the Addis. I mean, how long between the time they came in and they actually started taking away people? Okay. That's a good question. The Italian war itself broke out in, October 1935.

Okay. Okay? It was up north in the you know, they came from Eritrea. So the war, the the beginnings of the war were in the area of and Aksum just, you know, just across the border between what is now Ethiopia. So that was in October of 35.

By the time they reached Addis Ababa, it was May 1936. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So the the order yeah.

In May 1936. And the the prisoners were taken were rounded up and taken away in February 37. Wait. So a year later? So that about a year later.

So that means that they didn't have I mean, first of all, even with all the mechanized weapons, it took them 6 months to battle to Addis Abba. And and then it took them another year to get enough control to start, you know, imprisoning anybody of importance. I mean, obviously, I mean, your your parents were not soldiers, so it was just a roundup. Yeah. Well, as I said, there were close to 300 persons who were rounded up.

But you know what, prompted the what the immediate cause of the rounding up and taking them prisoner was an event that occurred in, in February of 1930 7. Of the date here, sir. 7. Yeah. February 1937.

In Ethiopian, it is an important date on Ethiopian, her calendar. Yeah. Cartita's Raulit, as of 1929. You remember the there is a monument. Yeah.

Well, that's the date where the Italians massacred the civilian population of Addis Ababa. It was a big event. The reason being that 2 Ethiopian Patriots threw a hand grenade, many hand grenades, 7 of them, on Graziani, who was the governor, the Eritrean governor of the country. Mhmm. You you you know, the it was an attempt to kill him.

He he said, yeah. And and in in retaliation to that, then the Italians just went bazier. And they just rounded up, civilians, even monks and priests. And, so those who went to as in other words, just only a few, as I said, about 300. But, about 7,000 went to other places in Somalia into an island near just off Eritrea.

So, yeah. They I mean, they also killed people? I mean, they didn't just run them up? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I know. A lot of people are killed on that day.

You cut it 12, February 19th. A lot of people were killed. And this is the monument that is just, that you see on near the university. Mhmm. And the square is called square.

The monument is in commemoration of that date, and the hospital next door is called the. It's a big day in on our calendar. It's still commemorated as market's day. Yeah. Lots of people are killed.

You know, the story is that they put them in they would just put people in their in their hearts, and they just set the hut on fire. Wow. They went to monasteries and then killed lots of, nuns and monks, on the ground that the plot to try to assassinate, Graziani was planned in in one of the monasteries, Deborah Ivanos. Mhmm. Even Ivanos got the brunt of the assassin you know, of the killings.

Yeah. Wow. Did did you know did your family have people that were killed or have how close is that to you? Many. Many, many, many were killed.

In fact, I remember well, I vaguely remember that when my parents, my mother returned 2 years later from the Italian prison, for days on end, there was mourning in our car in our in our house. Right. Yeah. Because so so many of our uncles and cousins and relatives had died. It was, you know, continuous luck.

So, you know, Yeah. So lots of, our people our our relatives were killed. I mean, I can mention names, but I don't think they will mean to you. But, yeah. So it it was indiscriminate?

I mean, was there I mean, did they just start, you know, opening up with automatic weapons? I mean, what was it? I mean, did they have did they have some sort of sense to it? I mean, it seems crazy to go to monasteries and start shooting people. It wasn't well, in this, it was indiscriminate.

Now I read that the person who made this decision to, indiscriminate, killings was not Graziani himself because he was wounded in that attempt, assassination attempt. And he was not, he was not conscious. So, some of the writers who now write about that period say, it was the political head of the fascists in Addis Ababa who made that decision as Graziani was more or less, incapable of making, all these decisions. In any event, yeah, it it was, it was very, cruel. Mhmm.

They used according to Ethiopian sources, they used, axes and hatchets and all kinds of things and not just guns only and burns, hats off people in them. And it wasn't just in Addis, but in in all the big cities of Ethiopia. Gone around for about yeah. As inhuman. What do you know about I could say that No.

You can you please finish out. I was gonna ask more questions about what you know about your dad and sort of his duties. Okay. Well, as, I started at the very I said at the very beginning, I don't know much about, you know, when he was born, where he was born, very little about his background, his ancestry. I know he comes from the whole region, but, my understanding is that he although his people came, from the whole area, that he himself was born in Addis in Addis.

Well. My father, he was regarded, as, one of the empress men in the sense that he was one of the few who were modernized and who knew a little bit about a foreign language. He spoke a little French, and he was whenever there are an important, assignment, The emperor would get hold of him and appoint him. So he's been appointed in several places. One of his the place where he stayed the most, perhaps, is where he did the great contribution to the country was as consul general in in Eritrea, in Asmara.

Mhmm. This was the period, when the Italians were preparing for war. Mhmm. And, he was sent to Asmara to really report to the emperor, on on the preparations and to see if, they can come to some kind of accommodation to avoid war war and conflict. So he was, there around 1930, 31.

I say this because that's when my sister, Zimam, was born. And, at the in in Asmara. She was born in Asmara. So that was yeah. And, the mom is her name from from Eritrea.

So that was a post. And in that position, he was quite well not only in Ethiopia, but, overseas. The Italians got to know him and about him a lot. So that, contributed to his being earmarked for detention to Asmara. That's so that was, one position he had.

So wait. Now when you say consul general, at that time, Eritrea was a a, Italian colony. Italian colony. So they considered it, you know, part of Italy in some sense. So he he was representing the sovereign Ethiopia in this.

I mean, what is this what is a consul general? As a like an ambassador kind of? Or Yeah. But since it's, Eritrea was not a full fledged country, they don't have a they don't couldn't appoint ambassadors. Exactly.

They would recognize it as a country. Yeah. Yeah. But it it was a given to an ambassador. He I mean, you the portraits we have of you, that you probably seen in my house is he, he he's a type in the diplomatic attire that, is of the rank of a of of an ambassador.

So he would be It was called Consul. Yeah. But he he did the highest ranking nonmilitary Ethiopian in Eritrea. Right? That's right.

That's right. So, I mean, that's a you know, I guess that's a dangerous thing to be too, I suppose. Exactly. Exactly. They yeah.

I mean and, their main story I mean, growing up, Phil, one of the things that I remember distinctly, is, you know, whenever they find out who my father was, everybody would say, oh, your father was such a patriot. Ageri O'Dal, he loved his country. You know? I mean, so we were given, you know, quote, unquote preferential treatment or at least we're recognized. Kiefer and I was recognized when we were small kids in school and in primary school as as as the sons of, of of a great patriot.

Wow. Yeah. Mind you, nothing as much has changed since I was born, but then it hasn't changed much for me either. Yeah. So he what did they tell you or I mean, from the family's perspective, like, do you have any memories of why your dad was gone?

Or, I mean, what you know, later on, you you know, you understood. Right? But would you remember anything about what they told you while he was gone? Well, you know, before he was detained and sent to Asmara, when the Italian war broke out, you remember, in 19 35 October 35? Yeah.

He was among those who fought the Italians in the earlier skirmishes in, Balague, Ambaradum, up north in the Tigray area. Mhmm. He was wounded there twice. So he was, there with a large of Ethiopian forces, not only him, but, I mean, you know, when the general mobilization was made in October of 35 and and the army was sent north, he was he was among those who led, his, troop, and and fought very hard in Ambalagan and Ambaladam. So so the Italians know knew him.

I mean, you know, in those days, the military and the civilians were not that distinct. Mhmm. I mean, your Russes, your and and my father, just like any of them, was of case, civilian in many respects. But, you also had a sword right in your fan army, your followers. Mhmm.

And then and they went and fought. Yeah. So how did so he fought and I mean, how did he go from Azmer to Ali Saba? I mean, there was a a war, right, in between? So they said they retreated back to Ali Saba?

I mean No. I'm sorry. I I think I I jumped a period. I mean, after after Asmara, after his service as counsel in Asmara, that was I think that ended around 1930 2. Maybe it might have extended until 1933, but I doubt it 1930 to 33.

Mhmm. After that, he was the Italians did I mean, you know, wanted him to be, to be to be recalled. Mhmm. So there are the stories, and in fact, friends have done some research in the Italian archives telling me of of, many communications from the Italian government to the emperor to ask him to remove from, from Asmara because, you know, he was too much on their way, he kind of thing. So, anyway, after that, he returned to Addis Ababa after his stint as, as, considering Asmarah.

He was he he returned to Addis Ababa, was given other appointments. The appointment that came immediately after that was as the emperor's watchdog, so to say, in in Tigray, in 19, roughly, just before the war around 30 4, 35. At that time, the one of the governors of Tigray, highness. Mhmm. The the jasmuch highness.

Mhmm. A grandson of the emperor, Johannes. Mhmm. So and who was married to the emperor's daughter, actually. Mhmm.

This man was, was suspected of being an Italian sympathizer. And so, my father was sent to Macauley, where where the the Jazzmaster Gooka lived, to see to Kinda watch it. Look after all his movements. Yeah. The world not to look at because he's married to the emperor's daughter.

Yeah. So he he just can't apprehend him and say he was a prisoner, but he he followed his activities. And, there are many stories of what kind of detective service he did and transmitted to the emperor in in Addis Ababa. And, my mother's I remember my mother telling me distinctly that when later on, Hireas Gulsa, the Jasmuch Hireas Gulsa did actually, became a traitor and joined the Italians Wow. Just before the war broke out, which was a terrible blow to the Ethiopian morale as you can Yeah.

Imagine. The emperors sent a small plane, one of the small planes he had to bring our my father from, Makkali to Addis Ababa to tell him, quote, unquote, Everything he told me was was correct. Because although he was reporting that indeed, Lazio was negotiating with the Italians and making you know, it was in constant and close contact with the Italians. The emperor and his the emperor's advisers didn't believe him. They kept saying, you know, how can this happen?

This guy is married to you to to your son. Yeah. I mean, you know? So it must have been a personal quarrel between Murdacho and, Gugsali. Yeah.

By the way, this particular incident of what our father did in Makkali. Mhmm. Keeping an eye on Iris Lazi Guxi is is written up in many, many books, foreign books as part of the history war. Wow. So one you might wonder, maybe I can show you.

No. It's amazing. So, I mean, it's it's even interesting to think, that such a thing is possible. Meaning, like, you know, that you could, you know I mean, a very well known person like that, you know, in in what must be a much smaller, you know, community can, you know, sort of actively spy without being caught. Do you know what I'm saying?

I mean, now we have electronics and all kinds of things, you know, which make it sound more difficult. Even then, one of my father's, colleagues, he's, he he used to tell me of, how they popped his telephone. There are the telephone, managed to to get some of the telegrams that he was exchanging with the Italians. Wow. And some of the letters you correspondence.

And, so he had a full file of in controvertible fact that Iris Lasek Goksa was indeed planning to defect. I'm sure she defected. But, one good point was that, Iris Lasseguksa had promised the Italians that he would when he effects, he would bring much of the, to drive forces with him. Yeah. But, but, our father my father, succeeded in aborting that.

Only very few, Magali forces, Tigray forces went with Haile Selassie Gugsa to 8. As a result, the Italians were so disappointed that they didn't give him all the things that they had promised him. They had promised him to make him a governor of the whole of Tigray, which didn't happen. They had promised him to take him to Rome, which didn't happen. They just put him in one of the cities, in in Macauley and, I know him in Tigray, and they just kept him there.

So there was some kind of, you know, work, attacking his I mean, the spying going on his telephone and, and the telegraph communication. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. Right? I mean, it's a he's a, you know, kind of a renaissance man.

He's covering you know, he's got the spy. You know, he's he's fighting the battles. And so what what was his, you know, a long time ago, you said in he was, in the business community or in a god dress? I mean, what you know, before these political appointments, you know, where did he come from? Okay.

He was as, he was a self made man, Phil. He doesn't come from any of the, established and old families or certainly none none of the nobility. On my mother's side, you know, she could pound perhaps to, you know, some of the old families, Amhara families in uncover. But my father was a came from an ordinary, family. Very, we hear that he the his father, Ali, Mhmm.

Was a merchant. Mhmm. He he was he had a large caravan of camels and and horses and donkeys that, traded between the south in ivory and spices and so which he would bring from the south to the north. And then from the north to Addis and from Addis, they would take manufacture things, clothings, and whatever too. You know?

So he was a tradesman Mhmm. And and quite quite wealthy. Mhmm. So he bought a large tract of land in Golale. Oh, interesting.

Okay. Yeah. That land that where the house we are in is only, like, a 10th of what it used to be from what we were told. Mhmm. Because yeah.

It it was lost one way or another or sold or given away as a present to his friends and so forth and so on. But there was I worked with this, but by no means, a nobleman or any connections with the, with the royalty or or or or with the monarchy. How did they get the title, though, Kenya as much as still? Okay. A word title.

He was in a godless. Now the way okay. He was a self made man. He must have caught the attention of 1 of the court people. You know?

I I can't I can't tell you exactly how he got to know the emperor, but the emperor did have confidence in him. So, he became an aggress, when this is a long story, but in in brief, sir, we have to go to Guojam. Okay? Yeah. You know, the province of Guojam.

The prophets of Gojab. You're talking about his Ali or Waddaju now? Waddaju. Okay. So he he himself was a merchant.

He said his dad, King Yazmat Ali, was a merchant, or they're both merchants? No. No. No. My father was no, ma'am.

My grandfather was a merchant. My father was not a merchant. Okay. My grandfather, Kanyaz Machali, was a merchant. Yeah.

But his son, Yeah. The is, head of, traders, head head of businessman. Yeah. Nagaras. You know?

Nagaras, mister Mercian. Andras. He yeah. Yeah. Rasa.

Head of the yeah. And the way he got that title was because he was appointed as, the head of well, to establish the taxation system in Goja. Mhmm. To call it. That means to a portion land, you know, to the rural land and was not apportioned.

I mean, it was big vast areas that that from here to eternity would belong to 1 person. So so when they were starting to have that established land taxes and so forth, they had to have some kind of systematic way of of of the how to put it? The systematic way of parceling the land. Mhmm. So he was he he got the of Nagadas when, he was sent to Gojjam to establish the taxation, system in the country.

This So is he a sign an a like, an an auditor, which what what do they call those? Assessor? Assessor. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. Assessor. And that's a very potent position. I mean, that's a he that's in most places, that's the most powerful guy in the province or the city or, you know, whatever. He was.

He was. And, it's a little interesting here, just to side point, a bit of history. Gotjam was has been governed by key a king. You know? It's like, you know, in the old days, they had kings in many places, and Goljjam's king was Nogus Taklaimanot.

Mhmm. Nogus Taklaimanot was a king under Menilek, Nougusta Kleinmanot. When Nougusta Kleinmanot died, his son, Hailu, he he was of Nogus, but he was he became automatically the governor of of Goja. Mhmm. Rasaylo Rasaylo.

But Rasaylo had a very, uneven uneven, to put it mildly, uneven, career because he all collided with the and, and, anyway, he was also suspected of having been having been instrumental in have when allegedly escaped from prison. Mhmm. Okay. So, so he was removed from that position, from from the from Gojjam, as governor. He was he was a house prisoner, you know, a house arrest.

So they had to appoint somebody else who was not a Gojjam to govern Gojjam, which is which would be the first time in their history. So Rasemuru was appointed governor of Gojjam, and Rasemmuru chose our my father as his kind of right hand man to take care of the finances of the province. And that's when he became a gatherers and went to go jump. Wow. That was one of his earlier, appointments.

So he was so we don't know what he was before that. I mean, that's he, I mean, he he must have been somewhat well known, obviously, to get the attention Yeah. Of the people who make the appointments, but that's kind of the first thing you know about him, like, in terms of a job or a position? That's right. But I think he would have come to be known to the palace through my mother's relatives.

You know, my mother, as I said, was well connected. Yeah. Her her her were, the jazz marches and governors and all kinds of things. You know? The mayor of the Addis Ababa Cantivatanna.

Mhmm. I mean, all of these people, were very close to the emperor. And, so he must have used one of them to get the attention of the emperor. But I just don't know. I'm just And then what do you know about how your mother and father met?

I mean, where did they I have no idea. Was it an Adi Saba even or you you think? I mean, he he was yeah. He was born in Addis Ababa, you said. Right?

Yeah. I think he was born in Addis Ababa, but as I said, I really don't know. And where was she from? I mean, you said you think he's from Waddler. What about your mom?

Where was she from? Ankhobor. Ankhobor So Showa. Anshoa. So that's, I mean, there are a lot of you know, that's a well connected place to start with.

Right? That's that's right. That's a well connected, family. She comes from a well connected family, on her mother's side. Not her father's side, but on her mother's side.

Mhmm. Yeah. So a lot of royalty well, not royalty, but I guess nobility you could see. Yeah. Yeah.

And their governors and ministers and so forth. And nephews and so forth. Now while so going now going forward to the time of the Italian war, who was who was the head of the household? I mean, your mother and father are both gone. I mean, you know, the 2 out of the Okay.

Yeah. 3 siblings are gone. I mean Yeah. That's a good question. Yeah.

My father's sister was the one who was who had the responsibility for our upkeep. Uh-huh. She would take the rent from the Italian, guy who rented our house and give it to my, mamite, if you want to call her, mama mama Gaffana Uh-huh. For my expenses as well as for the boarding school, to the American mission where our 2 sis my 2 sisters were going to, were attending. Yeah.

So she but she does she who lived in the house? Do you know? She lived she lived across the street. Do you remember Zodu? That's her son.

No. Gosh. Zodu, the one in Germany? But he's at this yeah. That's her that's her son.

I know. But I knew when I met him when we were there for Gashtof. It's, the That that's right. He was married to the Swedish woman. Right?

Isn't that it? She's a German German woman. German woman. Yeah. So wait.

So his mom is your dad's sister. So he's your cousin. Exactly. I didn't know that. Yeah.

So so in the house, though, I mean, now the main house is rented to this Italian man. So as, you know, you're off limits. Right? And mama mentuab's house is where everybody lived, but, you know, the adults were gone. At least the the heads of the households were gone.

So it was the Yeah. Then the nanny was taking care of you and I don't know. I'm sure there's always some other relatives around. But basically Yeah. The there are.

Yeah. Like usual. I'm sure there's many people around the house. Yeah. But sort of cousins and uncles were sort of managing the money and such.

Yeah. You can you can put it that way. Yeah. There was no immediate, person. I mean, my my 2 sisters were at school.

Yeah. And I was an infant. Yeah. My parents were gone. So my 2 other siblings.

Yeah. No. I mean, how it out, I I I can only guess that. In fact, failed one of the earlier memories I have of, my mother and my, my, Moxit. We called her Moxit.

Yeah. Was, when my mother returned my, and there would be there were these, she was she was acting like a a judge. She would stand down on top of the stairway, and my, to one side and, my niece, you know, my father's sister. Her name was. The 2 would argue to her.

You know? She didn't give me the, proper allocation for this month. I she owes me this. And and the other one said, no. I've you know, so so that was an internal.

You know? Wow. Yeah. And my my my, Auguste Buffetna spoke. I mean, she's from Oromo.

She her her American was not a very good would sometimes speak in or or Romina to her mother and which she she wouldn't understand anyways. Because my mother wouldn't understand. Not not a good way to get the money. Yeah. So what so do you do you have any memories of of the household or, you know, what it was like during they were gone for 2 years total?

I mean, your dad didn't come back. I don't know. But the so there are 2 years. I'm Do what do you remember? Do you remember anything?

I mean, not really. Not really. You remember, don't forget Amo. Only 3 years old when they returned. No.

No. No. When they returned You're 5. They returned. That was 5?

Yeah. That was 5. They returned. Yeah. So not really much.

No. Yeah. No. Not much. So then when they so when they came back, you know, the Italians were kicked out.

Right? So is that when you got the house back or no? Or is that is there some time in between? I'm not sure when exactly, but, Yeah. The that house was always rented.

You know? Nobody really lived there. None of my family lived it that because it was the virtually the only source of income for my mother except for land except for lands, you know, here and there. My mother had no cash income. That was her only source of cash income.

Uh-huh. So it was always rented, throughout my life. The first time it was not rented is when I moved into it Right. After in 9 in the 19 sixties. Wow.

Yeah. So so then, so at that that's way forward, but at that point, you became the the the source of money. I mean, like, if you took away the main rent. I did. Yeah.

I was really yeah. I should have paid rent per house, but I didn't. That would not have been cleaner. Yeah. It didn't occur to me at that time, you know.

Just, and my mother said was so happy that I was back. Yeah. The the point was never raised. You know? She never raised it.

And I mean, I don't know why, but it it just happened that way. Yeah. Once in a while, I start to to think, you know, you know, that wasn't the right thing I did. Yeah. Yeah.

This is great. Well, I mean, I think I think we can stop here. There's, a lot a lot more we could cover on this and and maybe, you know, the next section was supposed to be schools and, you know, so when you go to grade school, I'm sure, you know, some of the things will Kindly stop it and just let me go over the